Ep 6: Oakley Campbell - Understanding surf communities and coastlines
In this episode, we chat with PhD student Oakley Campbell, who’s exploring how changes to surf spots and coastlines affect the communities that rely on them.
Oakley Campbell’s love of surfing has gone beyond the break. He’s spent almost ten years studying our environment and society, and is now four years into a PhD focused on surfing communities.
His research is relevant to surfers across Aotearoa and the world.
He’s looking at how changes to surf spots and coastal areas can affect the people and communities who care about them.
He hopes that a wide, academic approach can broaden the discussion of these places and show how important they are for the wellbeing of these communities.
He’s specifically looking at an emotional experience called ‘solastalgia’, which is related to changes in familiar environmental factors.
The most exciting part of my research is hearing stories about people's surfing adventures and experiences in New Zealand. To me they are always fascinating and inspiring.
Listen now
Listen to Oakley’s episode and discover what happens when community spaces fail to be protected.
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[Music playing]
[Host – Hiraina] Kia ora and welcome to from the ground up. I'm your host Hiraina Tangiora and I'm a lecturer and a PhD student here at Lincoln University. This podcast is about all the fantastic research being undertaken by our postgrad students right here at Lincoln and the real-world impact it has. In each episode, we'll sit down with brilliant minds to uncover fresh ideas, share inspiring research stories, and explore their student journey. Today, I'm catching up with Oakley Campbell, who's researching an issue affecting surfers across Aotearoa and potentially the world. He's looking at how changes to surf spots and coastal areas can affect the people and communities who care about them. He's specifically looking at the emotional experience called solastalgia and surfing communities, which I'm very excited to learn more about. Oakley's been at Lincoln from his undergrad degree all the way through. And outside of his studies, it's no surprise he loves to surf. Thanks for coming on the podcast, Oakley. It's so good to have you here.
[Guest – Oakley] Thanks for having me.
[Host – Hiraina] Now, would you mind by starting to tell us a little bit about yourself and your PhD study?
[Guest – Oakley] Sure. So, uh, I'm in my or fourth year now of my study for PhD and I've been at Lincoln since 200, uh, 15, so it's been a while, a pretty long journey. And I'm researching basically how people feel about changing surf environments and places.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And what else have you done here at Lincoln?
[Guest – Oakley] I enrolled in a landscape architecture program which I dropped out of after a semester and then went traveling for a semester and then came back to Lincoln and changed to environmental management and then stumbled my way through that for another semester and eventually changed to the BES which was a bachelor of environment and society and kind of found my footing a bit more there and I don't know followed my nose ever since I guess.
[Host – Hiraina] Interesting. And good to know that you can start something, pivot, change if you need to,
[Guest – Oakley] And finished a few things along the way. Just one more thing to finish as well. So.
[Host – Hiraina] absolutely. You're getting pretty good at it. You're knowing these halls pretty well.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure.
[Host – Hiraina] Are you local? Did you grow up around here?
[Guest – Oakley] I grew up in Timaru, but my mom's family is from Leeston just down the road. So, I kind of spent a lot of time in the area and grew up going to the Banks Peninsula every summer. So, feel like it's kind of second home in a way.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And did you always think you would go to university or was that a bit of a surprise to yourself?
[Guest – Oakley] When I left school, I all I knew was that I wanted to leave Timaru. So when I finished my last day of school, I drove to the Bay of Plenty and got a job at a Top 10. And that was as far as my plans went. And then somehow I ended up enrolling for I don't really know how it happened for landscape architecture. It seemed like a good idea. It wasn't too deliberate, but
[Host – Hiraina] Exactly. Whatever decisions you made at the time got you to being here with us at Lincoln, which is great.
[Guest – Oakley] Mhm.
[Host – Hiraina] Can you tell us a bit about what first inspired you to pursue this area of PhD research?
[Guest – Oakley] It would have been at the end of my undergrad with BS and I had a particular professor who was kind of a he reached out to me and he said hey like you know like your work’s reasonable and like if you like apply yourself you know there's like you could for sure look at postgrad and that kind of prompted me to you know maybe take myself a bit more seriously and consider my opportunities and then I enrolled in it was the NAMI I don't think it still exists which is a international based masters and he He basically said, you know, the university has a scholarship for flights. Think about it as an opportunity, you know, to travel and then come back and do some research. And he he said that knowing who I was as a student, that he encouraged me to pick something that was really of interest to me and don't just choose something that you feel like is necessarily going to lead to a job or should be studied. He said, you know, to stay inspired, you’ll need to choose something that is really important to you. And I went home and thought about it for a while and settled on researching surfing. So that's what I did in my masters and then I've sort of followed that through now to my PhD as well.
[Host – Hiraina] I'm guessing for some to someone to decide that they want to do a PhD on surfing, they know their way around surfboard in the odd wave.
[Guest – Oakley] Uh not as well as I'd like to, but I'm, you know, I've been trying for long enough anyway that I'm pretty passionate about it, but there's always room to improve for sure. But.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely.
[Guest – Oakley] And it was a good excuse at the time to travel New Zealand with a surfboard while doing interviews and research. So that was cool.
[Host – Hiraina] Does sound like living the dream a little bit.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure when you're out there and then I’m at a computer probably more than I'm in the water but it's a pretty good balance really
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely and based on your comment before I guess just highlighting how important it is to have that person I guess to believe in you and help you see a potential research pathway
[Guest – Oakley] I mean you just always feel sort of connected to staff in a kind of personal way that I'm not sure you would get at other institutions and it was really beneficial for me and it's something I really value about Lincoln for sure
[Host – Hiraina] Agree. And is that sort of the main reason you chose to continue your PhD studies here at Lincoln or was there any other factors that you considered?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh no I mean that was pretty important to me and also there were people who were Hamish Reini who works here who was super involved in surf break management research. So he was uh super encouraging of the kind of work I was looking at and been pretty good influence in terms of that. So that was another reason as well.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. Yeah. I guess might as well stay where these passionate and expert people are that you get along with.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure. Yeah, makes sense.
[Host – Hiraina] Now, we're not super coastal here in Lincoln, so I'm interested to understand how, you know, studying at a place like this really helps um your research.
[Guest – Oakley] I think in terms of like my personal research process and thinking about it. I mean Lincoln's a place where it has quite a strong identity which sometimes people can be from other places can be disparaging towards but when I think you recognize kind of the meaning and value in a place that's important to you and you also recognize that other people don't see that it kind of makes you want to not necessarily advocate for it but it also cautions you to not be too critical of judging other places and in terms of surf research there's kind of a bit of a tendency to see it as not legitimate or kind of dismiss it a little bit. So, I think that, you know, my experiences at Lincoln encouraged me to, you know, take a stance on what I see as important and what's valuable to me and, I don't know, try and not spread the message, but just kind of take a stance on what I think is or what is I recognize and valuable and feel justified in feeling that way, I guess.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And it sounds like you're a great ambassador for Surf Research and for Lincoln University.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, hopefully. I also just want to clarify that I don't mind Timaru. I did want to leave after my last day of school, but I've been back since, so
[Host – Hiraina] I feel like you can be forgiven. A lot of people want to have a change of scenery um and from the town that they grew up, so no worries there. Now, do you work uh as well as doing a PhD studies or are you a full-time PhD student?
[Guest – Oakley] I've been fortunate enough to pick up some research work which I've done since the beginning of my thesis and actually that's with another academic who is based in Christchurch who is also really involved in surf research in New Zealand and New Zealand is one of the probably leading countries really in terms of surf research. So it's been a pretty good setup which has been cool.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. That's so fortunate that you have also found yourself here as have these other interested academics too.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah totally.
[Host – Hiraina] And how has working uh in research projects and studying your PhD helped to shape your overall research journey? I'm guessing it has.
[Guest – Oakley] Uh it's definitely helps you hone those skills, but it also I think it's been a bit of a challenge. I used to do landscaping and kind of orchard work through my undergrad and my masters. And having that split is actually really nice. I'm someone that likes being outdoors and doing things. So when you're forced to do a lot of PhD at a desk, it's sometimes nice to have that split. But I mean really it's beneficial in terms of opportunities that come with research and learning to write and learning to research and all those things. It sort of helps streamline it.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely cannot do too much of that in terms of skill development.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. And do you find our surroundings out here at Lincoln's quite outdoorsy um as referenced help keep your research grounded in the real world?
[Guest – Oakley] Totally. I mean I guess it comes like you know I guess personally I've always felt like I kind of have a foot in a few different worlds. Like I'm not I didn't grow up on a farm, but I was exposed to my father was a vet, so we you know I went to farms and we had a lifestyle block, but I also was a keen skateboarder and I, you know, I dreamed of like moving to Barcelona and having this big like urban life and I've ended up kind of veering away from that. But I always feel like Lincoln's this place where you can sort of pursue what you want and you don't have to be limited to I don't know you know there's the city there's the gardens there's it's all kind of available if you want to try and access it it's up to you to kind of make the most of it I think
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely it's sort of just up to your imagination really awesome now coming to your PhD in your topic specifically what is the core research question or problem that you're trying to answer
[Guest – Oakley] I was just trying to write this before I came up. So, just clarify it. But the main idea I'm interested in is essentially how people feel about surf places being degraded. And it seems like sort of an obvious question, but there's a lot of research which looks, you know, why these places are valuable or how we could protect them, but no one's sort of asked the simple question of, you know, what actually happens when we fail to do that. That was my intention really.
[Host – Hiraina] I love it. Answering the simple questions.
[Guest – Oakley] Yep.
[Host – Hiraina] To give people something to think about. And further to that, Oakley, who do you hope will benefit most from your work?
[Guest – Oakley] I'd really like it just to contribute to, I guess, the body of work which says, "Hey, our not just our outdoor spaces, but our outdoor spaces and the areas which people value and give meaning to their lives are worth protecting." particularly, and this is something I've found in my research, that often people don't necessarily feel like they can or they don't feel justified in how important places are to them and they're not necessarily willing to speak up for that. And I just hope it encourages people to, you know, advocate for the places they care about. I would say
[Host – Hiraina] That sounds great. And in terms of following that train of thought, what kind of impact do you think your findings could have on I guess our economy, our communities, uh, and the environment?
[Guest – Oakley] The economies are people always like to say, you know, surfing, what, what does it matter? But I mean, there's been studies done which show the economic value of surfing. But I think I hope that holistically you know all of those things are supported by protecting environmental places for people. The values of the environment which exist there and the ways in which we make money from land or from industry I think are all supported by a healthy environment. So it's critical. Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] And I think you said that New Zealand is sort of leading the way in terms of this space or one of the countries leading the way.
[Guest – Oakley] Mhm.
[Host – Hiraina] Are you seeing at all a strong connection between what's happening here and overseas, even if the overseas research is less developed?
[Guest – Oakley] I just clarify, we're certainly we're amongst the first countries to legally protect surfing areas, which is a huge success, but it doesn't actually mean that they're protected indefinitely and perfectly. I mean recently there's been some changes to uh water standards or proposed changes for sewage being released into the ocean and that could have a huge impact and those are things which actually in other countries have been a priority in a way we assumed we didn't have to think about it because we had already had it covered but in a way we've sort of gone backwards but it's definitely part of a global kind of trend of research which I think is doing good things.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And like you say, people are not so sure on this surfing research, although it sounds very interesting to me. However, it's actually there's a whole environmental and societal benefits that spin off it as well. You're contributing to this really big conversation, which is too.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] Interested Oakley in hearing if New Zealand surf numbers are trending up, down, remaining static. Um, what have you observed, if at all, throughout your research?
[Guest – Oakley] That's a good question, and I should have an answer for that. Um in my own experience they really I mean it's I know that they've been growing steadily there's good research to show and the popularity has really taken off especially post covid actually there was a huge boom but that's petering off a little bit but I think you mentioned you know the well-being benefits and that's become a huge push for people to get out and be in the water and I think that's definitely a reason it's increasingly popular.
[Host – Hiraina] Mhm. Makes sense.
[Guest – Oakley] It's a it's a tricky thing for surfers. I mean, surfers, you know, they want to encourage people to surf, but they also struggle when there's a lot of people at the surf break, but I think on balance it's a good thing if more people are surfing.
[Host – Hiraina] And in terms of this trending up, which does sound really great overall, is that localized to anywhere in particular or is that throughout the country?
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, it's a good question. It's defin One thing that's changed is technology. Yeah, I mean cold places down south Dunedin and things, they used to be pretty empty cuz the water's so cold and it's so cold, but as wets suits have got better and as surfing has got more popular, I mean, people are finding that surfers are spreading out sort of everywhere. But certainly hot spots like Raglan and Piha are particularly busy, but.
[Host – Hiraina] And how is it that you're able to sort of get these findings and um publicized what you're doing and globally? Have you been publishing any conferences, things like that?
[Guest – Oakley] I co-authored a paper actually it was from my master's research but it was a similar area of surf research and I spoke on it at a New Zealand coastal society conference. But it's an interesting question. And I think I see value in the academic kind of publishing route. But I really would like once I've finished my thesis to write some maybe just magazine articles or more sort of straightforward communication around it the ideas and I see a lot of value in that kind of I guess it's science communication I suppose and communicating complex ideas simply for people to engage with hopefully y' be the idea.
[Host – Hiraina] can definitely see it having theoretical and practical applications. Just a little bit more work for you, but that's
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, for sure.
[Host – Hiraina] And what kind of methodologies are you using?
[Guest – Oakley] I used an oral history methodology, and that’s something I've used in my research work as well, and it's something I'm really passionate about, I think. I mean, I personally just find it really interesting to hear people's stories about who they are and where they come from and the places they've been and what they think about things, but it's a way of kind of elevating people's own experience to be useful information, especially when they might reflect on it just as, you know, ho-hum, it's just their lives. But when you look at it what it is and what they've experienced, it can teach us a lot, I think. So.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. And how does that out of interest differ from the semi-structured interview method?
[Guest – Oakley] Semi-structured I guess would be a part of it. Typically oral history you can either look at people's whole lives or look at periods in people's lives. I guess their approach the key thing is to know like or to let their knowledge and their experiences be legitimized or the focus of the interview and rather than go oh like you know and I mean it's definitely semi-structured in the sense that you know I have some questions prepared that I want to pursue but often people go where they want to go and you just kind of have to go along with it but that's often where the material seems to come from anyway. So
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely and I haven't come across that uh from PhD students so far. So thanks for sharing. That's really interesting. Did you do um your PhD just the one monograph or did you do the with publication?
[Guest – Oakley] Just one big long rambling essay. Hopefully not too rambling but
[Host – Hiraina] hence the diligence and uh perseverance themes. Yeah. In terms of finishing it off. And have you had any international collaborations or interest or connections in this research thus far?
[Guest – Oakley] Not personally. If I was more strategic with my research funding, I probably should have made that happen. And there's certainly there was scope for it, especially I mean there was a conference where I think Tony Hawk was the the the famous skateboarder. He was headlining it or something. There's some cool events on, but I should have been more proactive in making that happen. But I definitely see it. I mean it's or I think my research will be meaningful in places. I mean Queen qu not not Queensland but a state in Australia has just done a big assessment of the likelihood of climate change impacting a lot of their surf breaks but they you know that's without the knowledge of what that actually looks like for people. So I can see it kind of aligning there. But.
[Host – Hiraina] Watch this space.
[Guest – Oakley] Fingers crossed.
[Host – Hiraina] That's really great to hear a bit more about um what you're actually studying. This is a brand new area for me. So much appreciated. So, where have you collected your data from? Have you done it locally or have you travelled around New Zealand?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh so I've been to three places. I went to Raglan, uh a Okiwi Bar, which is on Great Barrier Island, and St Clair Beach in Dunedin. And in each of those places, I was looking at a distinct form of change. In Raglan, it was social change and overcrowding. And Great Barrier Island, there was a an estuary mouth which formed a wave which people had been surfing for 50 years. And then the estuary mouth now doesn't exist in the way it used to. And so there's no wave to be surfed.
[Host – Hiraina] Wow.
[Guest – Oakley] And St Clair, they built a seawall which now reverberates waves back into the lineup. So that's kind of where I've been looking.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And I guess like you say, you studied slightly different things in each location. Are there any commonalities you can draw between um people in the social side of things in all three or are they very much targeted to that specific place?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh I would say that the it's equally kind of disruptive to people but to a different extent. One of the key things I found is that you know to go surfing as a means of making meaning and making place and the ability to do that was impacted differently in each place. In St Clair you could do it, but maybe at high tide you had less opportunity to do it or in Raglan there was no physical barriers to it, but it would depend on how many people were in the water. Whereas in no Kiwi you could no longer ever do that and so that impact for that community was really significant especially I mean depression people talked about you know it was like losing a loved one and that sort of thing. So, so if anything you can sort of almost order those in terms of the Great Barrier one gone.
[Host – Hiraina] Mhm.
[Guest – Oakley] Um, raglan one overcrowded but and maybe going, who knows?
[Host – Hiraina] And then Dunedin St. Clair, sorry. Putting a sort of stop in place to try and protect.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Well, interestingly enough, the St Clair one was to protect the beach, but I guess by doing so, they degraded the surfing quality actually, which is one of the that's a big issue around the country that, you know, the way we managed coastal environments needs to consider, you know, not just what's on land, but also the places people value on the water.
[Host – Hiraina] So, so for us the newbies, what does the term solastalgia mean?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh, solastalgia is it's about it's a sense of homesickness you could say, but that you have from staying in your home. As your the place you value changes around you, you feel this longing for what you used to have. And it's it's related to nostalgia being, you know, this place or this period which you valued, which you've been removed from, but it's about having those similar feelings but still being in that place. And so I used that as a framing to explore the kind of emotional impacts of how surf places changed and what that meant for the people in them.
[Host – Hiraina] And are you happy to share any of your research findings with us?
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Well, one of the main things I found or I guess a key finding is that I mean it can have a huge emotional toll for people to have places and means of making places that they value to, you know, to no longer have that capacity to do that really undermines not just, you know, their surfing, but their sense of self and their sense of community and who they are and what they believe. And that's a really difficult thing for people to grapple with, especially when they're dependent on, you know, one activity or one place for kind of stabilizing their broader sense of self.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. No, that makes sense. And did you find that people were broadly aware of the fact that they had connected so much of their own, I guess, emotional state or identity to these places or was that a surprise for some of your participants as well?
It was a mixture, but it was interesting to note that a lot of people were actually quite self-aware about how important surfing was. And some people said, you know, I'm not just single-minded. Surfing is not the only thing I care about. For a lot of people, that was a really dominant force in shaping their lives and their decisions they had made. Wow. And for those people, you know, they have maybe less capacity to adjust to change when they're so reliant on a particular way of connecting with the environment and that sort of thing.
[Host – Hiraina] And have you seen any local initiatives that are sort of um communities set up to try and combat some of the environmental degradation going on?
[Guest – Oakley] There was an active organization called uh I can't remember what it was but it was about protecting surf breaks in New Zealand but it's it's sort of quietened down a little bit but it's certainly something which internationally is a big deal and I think unfortunately it's not until places are threatened and people are aware that they're threatened that they speak up and express their concern. places where people surf are particularly vulnerable and the places that they you know I argue that place arises from the act of doing surfing and within that there's like natural variability of you know if there's waves there's waves and if there's not waves there's not waves and that means that this place that you value I argue actually isn't there in that instance okay and it comes through from when you actually go surfing and because beaches are surprisingly complex You know, wind comes from one side of the world and the sand has to be in the right spot and the rocks have to be here and tide has to be this that actually those opportunities are less frequent maybe than people would consider and particularly in relation to like a land-based practice. It's a bit more sort of temporal and fluctuating. And then with climate change and coastal erosion and all of those things, it means that these places are, you know, the likelihood of them changing dramatically is pretty high. So, it's important to understand, you know, how people value them and the ways in which they experience them and that sort of thing.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely, I have been surfing a handful of times and I'm no good. Um, so for now, I have hung up my surfing aspirations, but who knows, maybe I’ll be back out there paddling one day.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure. No. definitely recommend it.
[Host – Hiraina] Now, reflecting on your four years, I think you mentioned so far, what has been the most surprising or rewarding part of your PhD journey?
[Guest – Oakley] Probably not the answer I should say, but sticking with it, it's been rewarding and persevering. I mean, it's been challenging and I've had some personal stuff that's happened through it. and you know getting towards the end now is kind of quite exciting but I think more generally there's it's a pretty rare opportunity you have to dedicate you know years of your life to looking at one thing you want to look at and that's a pretty amazing thing and it's something which is a little daunting to think that that'll be over as well if uh depending on what the future holds in terms of employment and things but it's a pretty cool opportunity I think
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. It's special. And on the future, what are you hoping to do after your postgrad study is completed? I'm thinking a Tony Hawk headliner conference maybe.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, I mean for sure. My main ambition I think would be to maintain a connection toto surfing in whatever job that's always been a priority for me and studies allowed me to do that. And it's a a difficult thing, but I think hopefully as my thesis would argue that those that ability to maintain that connection is important for people. And it's a challenging thing to do, especially in the economic climate at the moment, but stay creative, I think, and see what happens. I mean, maybe completely veer off. I don't know. I'm not too locked into anything in particular. Open to whatever comes along.
[Host – Hiraina] Very cool. Could maybe be remaining here at Lincoln. have uh spent a lot of time with us. That is it is Oakley.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Well, who knows? It's a possibility, but wait and see.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. Sounds good to still remain connected to surfing in some way.
[Guest – Oakley] Mhm.
[Host – Hiraina] And how do you see yourself continuing to contribute to that field in the future? You've mentioned maybe working in it. Can you see future research spin-offs from your current PhD topic?
[Guest – Oakley] Mhm. Um well yeah and I mean I briefly mentioned but I mean there's always opportunities and I think unfortunately especially around the world you know things of terms of environmental protection or individual people's values and their meaning and their ability to create meaning is increasingly kind of challenged when I guess if you asked me10 years ago I wouldn't have anticipated that. So I think it's important that hopefully I can maybe demonstrate the importance of these places and when there's opportunities such as you know water reforms or that kind of stuff to chip in when possible.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. And I'm thinking with sort of you know manage retreat or coastal erosion conversations um you would be quite a good person to have in those
[Guest – Oakley] That I think that's something that's I've realized through my research you know the relevance of I mean really it boils down to how people are connected to the places they value and how they respond to those places changing or with managed retreat you know the requirement that they leave those places and what that means for communities I think is Super interesting and a difficult question for sure.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And I guess when I think about where some of New Zealand's surf beaches are, they are like, you know, Raglan or Piha or the Mount, these are growing quite significantly as well. So I'm thinking is infrastructure capacity part of your research too?
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of the things I focused on is kind of the is the implications of yeah, I guess growth and mostly just the number of surfers in the water and what that means for people out there. And the it's interesting some people really struggle with that. But for other people, it can be an opportunity to kind of practice what they see as their form of surfing, which isn't kind of this idea of an empty surf break with perfect waves. It could be a communal and social thing with lots of people getting in the way and but and finding the fun in that but that can be a difficult thing for other people to rationalize.
[Host – Hiraina] So that's so true. Almost like competitive sport versus social sport.
[Guest – Oakley] That's a good way of putting it.
[Host – Hiraina] And um in a past life of mine, I was aware of some organizations that were getting like farmers and um growers off the land into surf and as part of sort of a mental well-being and health program as well, which all sounded very positive. I'm not sure if you've come across any of this in your work.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, I think surfers surfing for farmers might be the organization you're talking about. But I mean that's one of the it's a really good case study that you know especially with that program where I know I mean sometimes they surf in urban places but there's these really amazing places they surf which are you know for some people they might consider they're in the middle of nowhere but recognizing that they're particularly valuable for that you know well-being benefits and for that particular community I think you know, elevates their importance and why we should recognize them as being valuable and to protect them.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. You can't sort of, I guess, fully understand what you can't see, right? So, getting people to see these things
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah, for sure.
[Host – Hiraina] goes a long way.
[Guest – Oakley] And I think sometimes it's been interesting. often this might be a bit I might be kind of putting my own research down but in a way that the people doing it sometimes don't necessarily it's not that they don't they're not aware of how valuable it is to them but it's through the experiences of loss and when that place changes that you really get a an idea of how something how important something was to you I mean I think we know that about a lot of things in life but it's true of places and environments as well
[Host – Hiraina] absolutely and I can imagine as a result this oral history method ology be a very cool way of letting people tell that narrative, that story.
[Guest – Oakley] And people have, it's been interesting, you know, people have, oh, it never really, you know, it wasn't until I talked about it that I thought about it that way and I kind of realized something in myself or and often people also were reluctant to talk about it, which is a research challenge, but that in itself I found interesting.
[Host – Hiraina] So that's still a finding.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Exactly. It's written in there somewhere.
[Host – Hiraina] Exactly. And on challenges is you've got this benefit of 4 years again to look back. Has there been a key challenge that stands out for you along the way?
[Guest – Oakley] Diligence would be the key challenge for sure. I mean it's so much more productive to every day sit down and to engage with your research and that's a hard thing to do for 3 years and to sit there and some days the ideas don't come and the words don't come but you've still got to sit there anyway. M and so that's been something I've got better at doing as the journey's gone on but it's important for sure.
[Host – Hiraina] It's all like they say perseverance showing up trying to chip off a little bit every day.
[Guest – Oakley] Totally wicked.
[Host – Hiraina] And if someone was considering doing postgrad study here at Lincoln either in your field or um a land-based field, what advice would you give them based on the fact that you have been here for 10 years now?
[Guest – Oakley] Um, I'd definitely recommend it and I think the kind of the relationship you have with staff members and lecturers and library staff and people are so helpful and it's transparent and it's authentic and I think that I've found is really meaningful to doing good research and not feeling like you’re part of this big kind of machine which is just tuning along but it's a I I mean postgrad research is it's a personal challenge as much as it is like an academic challenge and that's really helpful for that whole process.
[Host – Hiraina] Agreed. The relationships you forge in a smaller place like ours are pretty helpful.
And especially with people who have done you know not similar worked in similar fields but I mean a lot of people feel know what it's like to study and to balance life with study and it's been really helpful.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And do you have two supervisors? Three?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh, I've got currently three. I might have two because one might have retired, but and I've had another one who's retired. Um, I don't think it was because of me, but I think they just got to the end of their careers, but I've got three. So, two at here at Lincoln and one through University of Canterbury.
[Host – Hiraina] Cool. And are they all in your field specifically or are they chosen for different specialties?
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. Well, that's I mean I think that's one of the good things about Lincoln as well because there's people who are kind of experts in such a broad range of things but work within kind of smaller units that I’ve got people who are a psychologist, environmental manager or like ecology and they all offer, you know, really great insights and guidance. So that's been cool.
[Host – Hiraina] Nice. Sounds like a really well-balanced team you've found, even if there's been a couple of changes along the way, not related to you.
[Guest – Oakley] Hopefully not.
[Host – Hiraina] Just timing in general. Now, we've had this really rich and awesome discussion about your PhD Oakley.
[Guest – Oakley] Mhm.
[Host – Hiraina] But what is the one thing you would want people to take away from it?
[Guest – Oakley] I mean, I’ve sort of tried to say it a few times and I feel like I've said it badly as well, but that the areas that you value are important because you value them and that you should feel, you know, like you’re able to express how important places are to you and that it's important that you do to ensure that they'll still be there for your own sake and for other people's sake.
[Host – Hiraina] I absolutely love that. And you know, it doesn't need this external validation necessarily. If you care about it, it it matters enough. And if you do, then you should protect it.
[Guest – Oakley] For sure. You can.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. Now, hopefully we've got some listeners interested in your area after hearing our chat. How could they reach out to you if they were interested in knowing more or collaborating with you?
[Guest – Oakley] Uh, the best way would be my Lincoln email address for sure. Yeah. Which is oakley.campbell@lincoln.ac.nz. Great. And happy to hear any communication.
[Host – Hiraina] Wonderful. And how long can we expect to still have you around under the Lincoln Uni student email, do you think?
[Guest – Oakley] Well, under the student email, hopefully not long at all, but maybe I've got a six-month report due in a few days. So, that says I think three or four months, maybe.
[Host – Hiraina] Exciting. So, you're near the very end.
[Guest – Oakley] I should be.
[Host – Hiraina] Yes. Oh, that's great. I mean, this is a big journey, but you're so close and you're going to produce an awesome thesis, I'm sure.
[Guest – Oakley] Thank you.
[Host – Hiraina] Wonderful. Now, we've just got two questions to wrap up our session today. The first one is, what would you do if you had a million dollars of research funding towards your PhD?
[Guest – Oakley] Wow, that's a cool question. I would spend about a year thinking of a really good research idea and in that time I'd be on a beach somewhere. But no, I don't know. One thing that hasn't been done which I think is important and people talk about is just actually compiling a list of all the surf places that have been damaged and degraded and just knowing what that looks like and the extent of it I think would be a really valuable resource.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. I've seen these sort of surf maps of New Zealand but never such a one shedding light I guess on degradation.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. And there's some numbers out there which would suggest that you know it's kind of a bit alarming the amount of surf places which are they can be completely lost sometimes and disappear. So I think that would be interesting and
[Host – Hiraina] Surely tour of the world's hottest surf spots would fit into your budget.
[Guest – Oakley] Yeah. I mean it would be necessary you know you'd have to like get a a view of what high quality was and what low quality was.
[Host – Hiraina] So totally in that global perspective you know cross country and research. Cool. And final question for you today. What is your favourite food or Fiber product?
[Guest – Oakley] Wow.
[Host – Hiraina] Only one.
[Guest – Oakley] That's cool. Well, I'll make it surf related. Uh, there's some cool stuff happening in the surf world at the moment where Flex Fiber is being used for the production of surfboards and it's getting a lot of rave reviews in terms of its durability and its sustainability. So, I'll go with Flex Fiber.
[Host – Hiraina] Very cool. A big thank you to Oakley Campbell for joining me today and sharing his research journey. Such an insightful korero. This has been from the ground up. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed today's episode and you want to hear more about our postgraduate research as well as the people behind it, don't forget to rate, subscribe, and share this podcast with your friends and your whanau. See you next time.
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