Ep 3: Campbell Kerr - Reshaping the food and fibre sector
In this episode, we chat with PhD student Campbell Kerr, whose research is exploring what works – and what doesn’t – in the food and fibre sector.
Campbell is a PhD student with a background in agricultural science and agribusiness management. He’s looking at the state of the industry with hopes to improve how it is structured.
He hopes to find better ways to structure these organisations, helping them get on top of incoming challenges like reducing carbon emissions.
Campbell brings plenty of practical experience to the table, from sea freight logistics and fresh produce distribution to vegetable production and rural development.
Read more about Campbell's research
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Listen to Campbell's podcast episode to hear about how Campbell wants to reshape the food and fibre sector.
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[Host – Hiraina] Kia ora and welcome to From the Ground Up. I'm your host Hiraina Tangiora and I'm a lecturer and a PhD student here at Lincoln University. This podcast is about all the fantastic research being undertaken by our postgraduates here at Lincoln and the real-world impact it has. In each episode, we'll sit down with brilliant minds to uncover fresh ideas, share inspiring research stories, and explore their student journey. Today, I'm chatting with Campbell Kerr, who's doing his PhD on how Alto's food and fibre industries organize themselves and what helps or hinders those groups when they need to make big decisions together. He's especially interested in how a mix of people and perspectives can shape better outcomes, especially when it comes to tackling those big issues like carbon emissions. Campbell brings plenty of relevant research and industry experience to the table from sea freight logistics to fresh produce distribution, vegetable production, and rural development. And he's been part of the Lincoln Faro for a while now, having studied horticulture, agriculture, and Agri business. Now he's lecturing in horticulture management and studying his PhD. Welcome to the podcast, Campbell. Great to have you on.
[Guest – Campbell] Thank you very much for having me.
[Host – Hiraina] No worries. Would you mind starting just telling us a little bit about yourself and what you're studying here at Lincoln University.
[Guest – Campbell] Okay. A little bit about myself. My name is Campbell Kerr. Uh I am a Lincoln University alumni actually. So I've spent fair amount of time here and decided to stay here a little bit longer and join the post-graduate team but also the teaching team. So I’m teaching into the horticulture programs as a lecture in horticulture management and my study my PhD study is looking into the organizations of industry and how do we collaborate to achieve some of the you know the big goals that we have.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. Sounds interesting and we will dig into that further as we chat. But what first inspired you to pursue this area of research?
[Guest – Campbell] Well, I’ve always been interested in how people collaborate um or even just work together. Um and I noticed attending some meetings here as a teacher, we have industry come to the table and and we have academics come to the table and it was just interesting to see us work things out and how often times the different objectives we have didn’t really align um and it was difficult to get some kind of outcome. So I was curious to understand how these industries are working themselves within their organizations um and so how you know we can work better together with them as well.
[Host – Hiraina] Interesting. And was this sort of one cannon event um or that you noticed or was it just a series of observations over your time?
[Guest – Campbell] Um I guess there was a trend based on the different uh meetings that I attended. So had probably three or four different industry bodies come here and and talk to academics. uh and then there was just I just noticed this real disconnect between you know what how we were working together and what we could provide and and identifying those synergies. So it really sparked that curiosity uh in terms of understanding how you know industry works together amongst themselves before coming out of industry and looking to work with you know the research sector.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. Great. Awesome. And you're a fellow Lincoln alumni like myself.
[Guest – Campbell] Yes.
[Host – Hiraina] But why did you choose Lincoln specifically for your PhD studies?
[Guest – Campbell] I’d like to say uh you know Lincoln chose me in a way. It was part of the job. Um but I was never really going to do PhD study. Um I never really wanted to go to university in the first place. So wow. Yeah. Ironic that I'm still here and teaching into it. Um but out of any place that I would choose to do my PhD, it would have been Lincoln just because, you know, I was very familiar with it. I had um developed relationships with staff members here already. Um, and I also like the facilities we have here on campus as well. So going from my bachelor's study in post-earthquake Christchurch or Canterbury where we didn't have a lot of resources and looking at it today with the nice student space here as well as you know world class gym facility and I honestly think the best gym facility in Christchurch as well. Um, you know, just kind of met the needs for both my um, educational purposes but also just my social and my exercise as well.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. You can do it all here.
[Guest – Campbell] You can do it all here indeed. Yeah. And there's no shortage of uh cardio equipment either.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. Definitely. And research tools too.
[Guest – Campbell] Research tools, you know, and I’m looking forward to the new greenhouse that we're having here on campus as well. I think that'll open up open up a lot of opportunities and that was always in discussion when I was looking at starting my PhD here. So, you know, having that in the back of my mind and something I can look forward to now when it's finally opened.
[Host – Hiraina] Cool. Now, as I understand it, you went to Lincoln High School as well.
[Guest – Campbell] Yes. Yeah. Um, so Lincoln High School and you grew up in the area basically and that was the ongoing joke when I was at Lincoln University saying that I would never leave Lincoln, you know, but I have left Lincoln and and you know, spent some time overseas and it has allowed me to appreciate what we have here at Lincoln as well. just kind of small community um but also really really nice campus that that's close to uh the Lincoln Township and I think that having the university here in the township um also brought a lot of diversity to Lincoln and and Lincoln High School. So I think as as students that was you know quite cool to have people from abroad um in our classes at high school as well.
[Host – Hiraina] So great that you've come full circle you've come back to this awesome township called Lincoln. Did you want to just quickly tell us a little bit Campbell about your time overseas, where you been, where you went and what kind of experience you gained?
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah, so my journey overseas, it actually started here at Lincoln. Um, I started with a study abroad program at Colorado State University. So, I was my fourth year of uh agricultural science and I noticed all my friends were, you know, finishing their degrees cuz Ag science is four-year degree. and somebody encouraged me to you know explore study abroad options and I went over for a semester and then I loved it and then I stayed another semester um and you know just that exposure to the American culture which was was pretty cool cuz growing up with it all over our media um but also just seeing different production systems over there like you know huge and large scale production enterprises um but also just you know the outdoor activities that you could do at Colorado State so that's something that you know I always recommend for students as well is explore the opportunities to go abroad because it did open up a lot of doors for me. As a result of that, I was able to join a company in New York and it also has close ties with Lincoln University as well, Kunanagle and spent a year there and under an internship and that opened another door to going over to um Hong Kong. So I spent a couple years in Hong Kong. And you know what I learned during that experience is that um you know New Zealanders and particularly Lincoln grads were well appreciated. Mhm. Uh in the organization um but also I kind of missed home a little bit. You know these big cities um and in a way enabled me to appreciate Lincoln a little bit more at the pace of life here. um but also gain the experience that you know a large metropolitan city can provide you in in terms of uh you know opening up your your mind about different cultures and you know what's important in the global system. So it also spurred my interest in studying organizations um of course that was private sector you know big big corporate business so it's interesting to see how people work in that kind of context. Um I came back actually and worked in rural development for a small charity and again that was quite interesting to see how a smaller organization works and you know going after grant funding and things like that and then I work for the public sector and the health system actually. So I think that experience also cur curated the the curiosity in me um and just to see you know how people behave in these these different organizational contexts.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. How do you find your role as a lecturer has an impact or shapes your studies?
[Guest – Campbell] I think there are good synergies between the two. Um I think as part of my teaching and what I'm working on that has kind of inspired also what I'm going to research. So I'm trying to uh you know kill two birds with one stone here and uh pursue a research path that will also build networks for me and help me deliver a good teaching. So whether it's building connections with people in the industry or or local farmers that I can take students out to go and visit or guest speakers who can come into the class. I think what I have chosen as my topic has really allowed me or will allow me to you know leverage some of these connections and develop a better teaching experience and learning experience for students.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely they seem to sort of go hand in hand like you say it's part of the job but also it's a really special part of what you do.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah. It's also quite interesting wearing the student and teacher hat you'll know yourself. Um so I feel like I'm close enough to being a student and even studying in you know this post-covid environment to where you know how a student works. um you know that often students need to balance part-time work um because cost of living and so just providing that flexibility and having the Yeah. I guess having the mindset of what a student's trying to achieve and what resources they've got at their fingertips and trying to cater to that as well. Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. And do you find our surroundings here at Lincoln, you've referenced uh green houses, there's obviously some horticulture productions not too far from us as well. Do you find that helps keep you grounded in the real world when it comes to studying your PhD and what might actually work and what might not?
[Guest – Campbell] Um, yes, grounded. That's a that's a good one. Um I think working actually in the vegetable production here in Canterbury local vegetable production that kind of um before joining Lincoln University as a postgrad student helped me figure out you know what I actually wanted to do and actually was almost therapeutic um and and the the experience of working outside and getting your you know hands dirty, thinking that was dirty, sweating you know it really helped me kind of brush off e uh working in the office type of environment. Um I almost like craved being outside. Um and it was yeah really therapeutic for me and it helped me establish you know what what I was going to do next. Um and just being so local uh here in Lincoln and you know exploring options while being at work as well helped me decide that. So in that instance um working in the industry here was really grounding for me. um for Lincoln University is grounding and my family's here. I still have networks here. I love to get out and go for a walk down to the arboretum or you know on a nice sunny day and check out the magnolia. Um the Lincoln township with the Te Whariki up the back there and all the walks with the water when I was living in in Lincoln was really great. Um the place where Ilike to do exercise and things like that. So in terms of like a campus and a town environment, just the, you know, the open air and the ability to get out in a bit of nature is grounding. And having that option when you're working to kind of have a bit of a reset when you kind of against the wall or not making much progress to go out, go for a walk, breathe in the fresh air, listen to the birds, and and you know, smell the flowers is is quite a nice experience. and then and uh a resource that we have here at Lincoln University.
[Host – Hiraina] Agreed. And I frequent um arboretum, or Te Whariki walks myself. So I know what you mean. Yeah. I love this idea of how easy it is to go from sitting at your desk in your office to straight outdoors. Yeah. Yep. Great. Now on to your PhD specifically. Campbell, what is the core research question or what are the core research questions that you are trying to answer?
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah. So my research is uh mainly focused on uh diversity within industry organizations and how does that diversity uh affect that organization in terms of decision- making mostly. Um so um what I'm trying to do is identify different areas of diversity. Of course, there's your normal ones like age and maybe education and perhaps what crop you’re growing. um but then trying to identify additional ones whether your crop is being exported or is being sold domestically and how these different dimensions of diversity affect the decision-making processes. So obviously some people everybody wants to advocate for their own interests but how does that play out and what kind of structures can be put in place to facilitate that that process better so everybody is getting their interest met as best as possible um but that you’re not taking an extremely long time to make a decision but also ensuring that we're making decision that that lasts so you don't have to go through that process again. Yeah, that's the crux of it. And I'm keen towork with um local industry organizations in the horiculture space just so we're leveraging um you know the benefits that it will have for teaching as well.
[Host – Hiraina] And who are you hoping will benefit most from your work? This doesn't have to be just one single organization either. I'm interested in the wide-reaching applications of it.
[Guest – Campbell] Uh so I'm using this as a a framework or as a base to help inform all industry associations uh in the food and fiber sector here in New Zealand. I think we've got a lot of grand challenges that we need to navigate such as you know climate change and and carbon emissions and we really need to make a decision on these sooner rather than later. So if there are some if there is a framework or if there is some kind of way that we can structure these conversations or these decisions that can help us make that decision sooner and make the right decision. I think it has an application to these industry associations. I think it also in in a general basis it could be transferred to any kind of organizational setting where you have a group of diverse stakeholders who themselves like those members in that organization they might be representing another organization so these are called meta organizations and you know there's a whole lot of examples of these across the world like the United Nations not saying that my work is going to be relevant to what the United Nations is doing but I think it's a organiz organizational phenomenon that we see across the world. Um, and there's a growing need for organizations and people to come together to make decisions and of course the the more people that are involved um the more diversity that there's going to be. So that's the crux of it. How how do we become more efficient in catering to these diverse interests so we can move forward as a society?
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. Awesome. Is there anything specific about the horticulture sector that may make your findings I guess less relevant to other sectors or is it pretty much this will translate across the Ag environment?
[Guest – Campbell] Um well the good thing and the reason that I I'm focusing on or one of the main reasons I'm focusing on horticulture is that it is quite a diverse sector. So you have a real diversity of crops. Uh you have a diversity of regional associations, and you know crops grown through different parts of New Zealand. Um but you also have like this cultural diversity as well. You have you Chinese um vegetable growers, you mold kiwifruit growers and things like that. So you have quite uh yeah I guess a an environment or a subject to to study. Um so I'm I'm taking the most critical case example of it and then I'm hoping that um just you know by unpacking the the social dynamics and the interactions um that you know the people is the commonality and the food and fiber sector is the commonality. So I I feel there will be some transferability to um the general agricultural sector.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. I am looking forward to seeing how you go with this. And you've mentioned climate change, carbon emissions is some of those problems. um down coming down the pipeline. Are there any other sort of impacts you think your research could have on those the primary industries um in in other areas as well?
[Guest – Campbell] In other areas umm.
[Host – Hiraina] Maybe like use of levy spend or.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah, that's what I was the first thing that came to my mind is is how we’re actually funding this and that's a real big um issue and that's another thing that I'm curious about and just with regards to who I guess who funds this transition um who benefits from this transition should it be strictly the private sector and it looks like that's the model that some people are talking about where you know you have more of a user pays or um large corporates are delivering a lot of these goods themselves um but actually you know we all benefit from this so is there does the public sector need to come to the table as well so um I think that's the one of was one of the first things that interested me about the the topic is is how do we pay for industry goods who benefits um because at the end of the day you know any benefits from food production they benefit the whole society in terms of food security. So, um, yeah, we want to keep it affordable for the the general population as well. Um, but also it's got to be a profitable venture for growers. So, is does the public sector need to come to the table? I don't know. But I think unpacking these things uh might create I guess or might identify new ways or a new idea that we can explore further down the track.
[Host – Hiraina] Maybe more research projects as spin-off.
[Guest – Campbell] More research projects as spin-offs indeed. Yeah, that's what we like.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. I think you're starting with the crux, but I think there's huge avenues for um future work as well. And we've referenced United Nations. Great. Love that. How else do you see your work potentially being relevant internationally? Are we facing some similar problems as everyone else?
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah, everybody's in the same boat really. Um we've all got the same challenges. um uh this idea of metal organizations that I I'm digging into is being explored quite thoroughly in in Europe and so I think that has applications there but also just the industry good system in general uh every nation is doing things differently there’s no commonality and of course there's lots of factors that is driving that um but it doesn't seem like people have figured out you know the magic solution so um I I think there’s transferability and relevance because yeah, as I said, we're all facing the same issues. We all need to feed a growing population, and we all need to do it at an affordable price without an impact on our environment. So, we actually have somewhere to to live and eat in the future. So, it's just these grand challenges as they say. Um, and we’ve got these wicked problems as well.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah, totally. And the PhD is the place to try and tick some of these off.
[Guest – Campbell] Well, yeah, definitely not. Yeah, that's what I'm learning. Um yeah, I I guess as postgrad students, we come in with these high hopes and and big ideas. Um but also need to be careful that we’re keeping things um manageable because you can't take on the whole world. And and that's what I'm figuring out with my research is that um you know the old saying, a good PhD is a completed PhD. Um and at the end of the day, what we're we're learning how to do research. We're not trying to save the world. So um learn how to do research first and become competent in that and then we might have um the ability to contribute to conversations later on down the track but just need to get our apprenticeship and research first.
[Host – Hiraina] Exactly. Are there any countries that are particularly um doing really well in terms of diverse decision-organizations? These meta organizations
[Guest – Campbell] um that's a good question. I I don't know. So how do you define the success there? Um, I think there's a lot of Yeah, I don't know if anybody would say the United Nations is is doing well or not. That's pretty hard hard thing to say. I'm just looking at the systems of funding these industry goods like in the Us they um they have probably further down the track in terms of private sector funding and and the problems that we're they're facing there or experiencing there. And then the Irish model which I think is quite an interesting model which is still predominantly um publicly funded. So, um, yeah, I don't know. That's a that's a really good question. That's something that I've got some few examples that I can say where people seem to be happy if somebody else is paying for the, uh, for the industry. Good. I think the the Australian model is also interesting as well.
[Host – Hiraina] What about it when it comes to selecting PhD supervisors? What are some of the things you think future students could consider?
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah, so that's a very important decision uh, in a PhD or post-graduate students career. Um the one thing you have an option to stack your team. So though you might not have somebody who has everything you want, you can identify people who have some of the skills that you want. I think it's really important to get somebody who is knowledgeable in the field or the theory that you're keen to explore or use. Um but also you need somebody who has time and time to give you feedback, time to guide you as well. So having that variety on your team will provide you with um the best of both worlds really. But at the end of the day, yeah, you just need somebody who's going to be there to support you through. Um and it might be a compromise or there might be some give and take between your topic and the topic that you're really passionate about and what your um supervisors or potential supervisor's expertise are. And I think somewhere you can um identify happy middle if you're willing to um compromise on what your topic is a little bit.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah. And how many supervisors do you have? I've got three. So my team is stacked with regards to uh somebody who's a leader in the industry and and the the agricultural industry. Another person who's like a leader in terms of economics and has a has a great network within the industry as well. and then somebody who is just really supportive and and does you know provides me with alot of feedback and a lot of guidance um and you know teaches me the the the tricks of the game and and helps me work through the tricks for young players as well. So I have a nice variety there and don't know what the limit is on on supervisors but yeah if you can uh you know get as many people as possible to stack your team. Yep.
[Host – Hiraina] Now changing tact slightly. What have you found to be the most challenging or rewarding part of your PhD journey so far? Acknowledging you are in the earlier stages.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah, so challenging part is probably identifying people in the industry to work with and and you know they obviously very busy people um and you know trying to get people on on the same time frame as you and meeting at the same time. So yeah, you do rely on a lot of goodwill on people in the industry depending on what topic you choose. Um but also there's a lot of really supportive people out there willing to help you through and also keen to engage with what you're doing. Uh biggest was it triumph or what do you say most rewarding most rewarding part so far? I did submit an article but it's still being reviewed. So I think you know submitting that first article was quite a rewarding thing even though it still could be absolute garbage um I haven’t heard yet but uh just that act of creating something creating something tangible uh that you can deliver um was really rewarding for me and that would be another bit of advice that I would give for potential PhD students is you have an option to just do what is it a a single dissertation or publication what is it
[Host – Hiraina] Monograph.
[Guest – Campbell] Monograph yeah So you have the option to do a monograph or a PhD by publication. And depending on what type of person you are, you might be able to handle that one large goal um of the monograph or you might like those bite-siz little chunks of dopamine that you might get through PhD by publication. So I went through the publication route and and so far it has been rewarding and you know you just need to focus on that first paper, focus on the second paper, focus on the third paper. They're achievable milestones. That would be another piece of advice I would give.
[Host – Hiraina] Great advice. Thank you. You've referenced um not being able to save the world with a PhD. And I think, correct me if I'm wrong, what you're alluding to here is the fact that you have to make something that's very manageable, your PhD, otherwise it could become a gigantic project that never gets finished. the importance of prioritizing an area and no matter how curious um you become in your area can extend and flow and spill remain focused on one thing and consider doing the rest of it later.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah. Yeah. Staying focused I mean you you're always going to go down rabbitholes. Um but yeah progress also yeah progress happens at different speeds. Sometimes your progress is reliant on other parties. Um, so it's about keeping yourself warm enough to come back to working on your PhD when not much else is happening. Um, and just yeah, I think it's just a matter of doing it. You just got to make a decision, pull the trigger, and move forward. And even if it's the wrong decision, you still made a decision. Um, you still went in one direction. and you might have found that's the wrong direction. But I think the worst thing to do is sit there in one place spinning your tires and and not moving forward or not moving in any direction. That's the wrong direction.
[Host – Hiraina] So yeah, love it. And I mean I can confirm I did change maybe a 90° not quite 180 on my own PhD topic. So as you say going down these rabbit holes and exploring things is important but eventually you need to pick your direction and that's going to be the right one for you.
[Guest – Campbell] Yeah. You got to you got to pull the trigger. Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] Two questions, Campbell, to finish us off. The first one is, if you had a million dollars of research funding, what would you spend it on?
[Guest – Campbell] Million dollars research fun. So, it's one of my little pet projects. One or my passions is I like this idea of um social farming is what they call it in Italy, but it's um using agricultural resources to deliver social services. Listen, if I had a million dollars of funding, I would love to have a little trial here at Lincoln University and bring people from the community in to uh get some of that therapeutic experience that I had working out on on the vegetable farm after I had done my corporate work. So, I think there's real value in that. And I think the the social side of agriculture is an an untapped thing here in New Zealand. It's something we don't really communicate that well. So yeah, a million dollars to establish a little farming project here to get people out maybe from urban society of those struggling with addiction or mental health or you know migrants to to come out and and experience uh you know getting your hands dirty and taking some kind of um social value through the practice of farming.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And if I were to say for your PhD specifically.
[Guest – Campbell] PhD specifically, um I'd also just like to get everybody in the room together and you know whether it's going to pay for their flights to get there or pay for their time because everybody's very busy and and their time is expensive. So to get people in the room and just see how a conversation is had amongst them on on a big topic that that's probably what I would do and I'll just kind of sit there and do what I do best which is watch people not like in the creepy way but like as an introvert people watching. Um but yeah sit there and just um watch things play out and and just just to get an insight into these types of conversations.
[Host – Hiraina] Million dollars get you a few focus groups and observations.
[Guest – Campbell] few focus groups, few observations, a bit of publicity, and and hopefully some people that feel like, you know, the work that we're doing is important because I'm sure through that experience, people are going to be very um yeah, concerned with how these conversations have played out and concerned with their interests or their opinions being fairly represented. So, I think everybody loves to be heard. Um, but it's how what we do with that information move forward is the most important part.
[Host – Hiraina] So, if people are listening to this podcast episode and they're interested in your area and they'd like to get in touch with you, how would they be able to do so?
[Guest – Campbell] Well, you can uh Google me, I think, researchers at Lincoln, you'll be able to find me there in my staff profile. Can Yeah, look me up on LinkedIn. Um, I wouldn't say I'm too active on there sometimes when I choose to be, but yeah, I'll be checking messages. So, um, yeah, reach out to LinkedIn, email me campbell.kerr@lincoln.ac.nz .I have an open-door policy, so come by my office. I won't say where that is, but yeah, turn up to campus. You know, staff are very friendly, very open. So, open door policy. Come have a chat and yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] Sounds great. Now, final question for the podcast today. What is your favourite food or fiber product? I know this is hard, but ideally you will only pick one. Ice cream.
[Guest – Campbell] Ice cream.
[Host – Hiraina] Ice cream. Love it. No further elaboration.
[Guest – Campbell] Ice cream. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Applebee Farms salted caramel in fact. Okay. Yeah. Would be my choice. Yeah, it is. It is very good. It's something I look forward to every Sunday night is ice cream night in our household. Particularly ice cream in a cone. And so yeah, that's my favourite food and fibre product. It's not horticultural. I do have a great appreciation for like horticultural produce and like just a really nicely formed apple or even a cabbage is an example that I use in my classroom is something that really spins my wheels to uh you know think about all the science innovation and everything that has led up to this perfect cabbage is is something that I do appreciate as well. So, in terms of going into my tummy, ice cream. Y in terms of appreciation, well-formed cabbage.
[Host – Hiraina] I love that. That's awesome. A big thank you to Campbell Kerr for joining me today and sharing his research journey. Such an insightful korero. This has been from the ground up. I'm your host, Hiraina Tangiora, and I thank you for listening. If you enjoyed today's episode and you want to hear more about our post-graduate research here at Lincoln as well as the people behind it, don't forget to rate, subscribe, and share this podcast with your friends and whanau. See you next time.
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