Ep 7: Will Frost – Saving Aotearoa moths from parasitic wasps
In this episode, we chat to PhD student Will Frost, a man on a mission to better understand native moths under threat.
Will Frost is the man to talk to if you like moths. The PhD student and ecological consultant is on a mission to learn more about them, specifically the New Zealand tiger moth. They’re a native species being hunted down by invasive parasitic wasps.
Will is a systematic lepidopterist. That means he specialises in analysing the DNA and morphology of moths. He’s using these skills to track the life history of the tiger moth and how they’ve been hybridised over the years. His work could help better the understanding of moths around the world.
"My biggest goal has always been to leave the world a better place than I found it."
I aim to contribute to the development of a more mindful world by fostering a healthy interest in moths among my students.
Will completed a Bachelor of Science majoring in Conservation and Ecology at Lincoln. He then undertook a Master of Science in Conservation and Ecology and soon realised research was his calling. He changed his Master’s programme to a PhD and was awarded a Postgraduate Diploma.
If you'd like to find out more about Will's research, you can get in touch with him via his profile on the iNaturalist NZ website.
Will Frost - iNaturalist NZ profile
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Hear more about Will’s journey and research on his episode of From The Ground Up.
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[Music playing]
[Host – Hiraina] Kia ora and welcome to from the ground up. I'm your host Hiraina Tangiora and I'm a lecturer and a PhD student here at Lincoln University. This podcast is about all the fantastic research being undertaken by post-graduate students and the real-world impact this has. In each episode, we'll sit down with brilliant minds to uncover fresh ideas, share inspiring research stories, and explore their student journey. Today, we are joined by Will Frost, a PhD student here who spends his days studying New Zealand's magpie moths and how invasive species affect them. He's worked as a consultant, research assistant, and tutor. And he's passionate about sharing his love of ecology with others. When he's not wrangling caterpillars in the lab, you'll probably find him outplaying disc golf or hockey, cooking, or playing board games with his friends. Welcome to the podcast, Will. Great to have you on.
[Guest – Will] Great to be here. Thank you.
[Host – Hiraina] No, you're so welcome. Could you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you're studying here at Lincoln? Yeah, of course. So, my name is Will. I grew up in Otautahi Christchurch. And uh I've always been a big fan of both birds and moths and even lizards to a lesser extent. So when I was younger, I had those three major obsessions and I always wanted to do something with my life when it came to studying them or learning more about them. So that eventually led me here to Lincoln University where I began a bachelor's in conservation and ecology in 2020.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. And what are you studying today?
[Guest – Will] Today I'm doing a PhD in entomology, more specifically tiger moths. They're parasitoids, so little wasps that attack the caterpillars, as well as um how they hybridize or interbreed with another species from Australia.
[Host – Hiraina] Interesting. Very cool. And we're going to talk a lot about your research um later on in the episode as well. Look forward to diving into that. Did you do an honours degree or a master's?
[Guest – Will] I technically did a master’s but then I did something unusual. I was so keen on the idea of doing a PhD that my supervisor said to me, why don't you just upgrade your masters into a PhD? So, I technically did a post-graduate diploma and then converted my master's degree into a PhD.
[Host – Hiraina] Interesting. I think you are the first person we've had on the podcast that's gone down that route. Will
[Guest – Will] Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] Um, so wondering if you have any insights to share for other people that might be considering the process.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, for sure. So, if you're not sure whether you want to do research in um a full honours degree or whether you just want to do a masters and then start working, I think the best course of action is to do a masters because if you don't want to continue studying, you can just move straight into the workforce. But if you decide you really love research and you want to do a PhD, you can either complete the masters or you can do what I did and just transfer it into your PhD. and it speeds up the process as if you did an honours.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And as I understand it, I have a masters and I'm working on a PhD. So that first process that you spoke about. Um given the significant size differences between the two, how hard is it, I suppose, to take your masters topic and just expand it big enough so that it is a PhD size.
[Guest – Will] I think it really depends on what your research is. I was quite lucky because I have quite a broad area of research and it was very easy just to add on extra chapters or areas of interest. So if you have a wide enough scope, I think it's quite easy to just upgrade it or add additional items to it if you're passionate enough about it.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. Thank you for that. That's really insightful and hopefully will help out some listeners who are in the same place as you.
[Guest – Will] Great. That's awesome.
[Host – Hiraina] So, you've spoken a bit about you liked uh birds, moths, and insects growing up, and I'm guessing that in general is what inspired you to pursue this area of research. Um, but then your research is obviously a very specific part of moths. So, how did you land up there in particular?
[Guest – Will] That's actually very interesting because my entire undergraduate I was a bird nerd. I studied birds. It was my passion. And then I took one third-year course on entomology and it kind of reminded me about how much I loved insects as a kid. So going into my masters, I knew I wanted to do insects, but I had no idea what to do because I'd always studied birds. And that was when my supervisor, John Sullivan, came in and said, "Hey, uh, there's this moth that lives on this weed that I like and they have these wasps that attacked them. That could be interesting. You should study that." And so I went down this whole rabbit hole essentially of uh delving into the world of moths just from an off-hand suggestion by my supervisor
[Host – Hiraina] and I love to hear stories of it kind of only take one influential person or someone you respect in your university career to really set the path of quite an exciting research agenda.
[Guest – Will] Absolutely. Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] But still a self-confessed bird nerd deep down.
[Guest – Will] Deep down. Yes. I'm reformed now. But I guess moths are the closest to birds if we're talking insects. Sorry.
[Host – Hiraina] Hey, we're going to trust you as the expert in making that comment.
[Guest – Will] Yes, that sounds good.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. Okay. Well, I can see you're dying to talk about moths and I'm dying to learn more. So, let's get into your research itself.
[Guest – Will] Great.
[Host – Hiraina] Now, well, what is the core question or problem I guess that your research is trying to help solve?
[Guest – Will] I guess the core problem that I'm trying to solve is the effect of unintentionally introduced parasitoid wasps. So there's a pair of them and they've made it into the country maybe established in the 1960s and in the 1990s and they're having some really negative effects on a lot of New Zealand's native moths but particularly the New Zealand magpie moth which is my main study species. It went from being known as probably the most common moth in the country or at least one of the most common in the 1920s, the 1940s, and now it's at the point where it's uh while it's still common, it's certainly reduced quite a lot in abundance.
[Host – Hiraina] Okay. Okay. And when you say parasitic wasp peers, are these the wasps that we see that we on a day-to-day basis flying around or are they specific ones that we might not see?
[Guest – Will] They're very specific. So, the ones you'll see on a day-to-day basis are probably the uh the yellow jacket wasps, the ones that will come up and sting you, but that's actually quite a very small grouping of wasps from very diverse uh order of insects. So, my ones are very small, tiny little wasps, and they're very hard to tell apart from any other small wasp unless you know what you're looking for or you just happen to rear them from a caterpillar that you collected yourself.
[Host – Hiraina] Right. of course. And what do magpie uh moths look like? How would we know if we were seeing them?
[Guest – Will] So, magpie moths are quite striking because most people will associate dayflying things with butterflies, but the magpie moth is actually a dayflying moth. It's got dark, beautiful black wings with white spots on them and a very striking abdomen with orange and black bands. So, it tends to stick out when you notice it.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. Are there particular plants um that it's you know favour that it Favors what in a garden?
[Guest – Will] So they're called ground cells uh which are known as sineso if we want to go into the botanical name and they are commonly known as weeds. There's a lot of introduced species and there's a lot of native species and you don't really see them in suburbia because people don't appreciate them. They see them and think oh that's a weed and they uproot them. So where these moths really do the best is in unoccupied urban parts of Christchurch where there's gravel car parks that no one really takes care of or in wilder parts that then there's no weeding going on, no weeding regimes. Magpie moths do quite a lot for the ecosystem because they are natural herbivores of a couple of problematic plant species. So for example, ragwort, which is a major major pastural pest, it’s been pretty much wiped out on the east coast of New Zealand, but on the west coast, the beetle that eats it doesn’t really thrive in the wet conditions. So the magpie moth is actually one of the few herbivores that we have as a means of combating this plant. So, it's useful in that context and it's actually uh now becoming a rare species because I was part of the Department of Conservation's threat assessment process for uh classifying some of New Zealand's rare and endangered moths and um considering some of the pressures that this moth is facing from the wasps and from interbreeding with the Australian moth in the North Island, it's uh now being considered rarer than it was in the past.
[Host – Hiraina] That's not good news.
[Guest – Will] No, it's not great. But at least it’s good that we're getting it out there so that people have an understanding of what's going on.
[Host – Hiraina] You're right. People definitely seem to care a bit more when they can see like endangered or extinct across a species, right?
[Guest – Will] Oh, yes. And it presents a challenge for some people. There's a lot of casual entomologists or um casual collectors that will see, oh, okay, this species is data deficient. We don't know anything about it. Well, this species is close to extinct. I want to try find that. And then they publish it on sites like Inaturalist which is a really powerful tool where people upload photographs and experts will identify things for them. And certainly uh recently we had a moth in the news the frosted phoenix which was rediscovered for the first time in 70 or 80 plus years on Stewart Island. And that kind of caused a whole hubbub among naturalists in the community. And I think we've gone from just the one sighting on Inaturalist from Stewart Island to now about eight or so across the country. And it's just from the storm that got created by this powerful tool Inaturalist. So using that as a means of both identifying what you find and then just adding to our understanding of what's going on in the community of insects is great.
[Host – Hiraina] Love it. So we got to get moths in the media.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, pretty much.
[Host – Hiraina] And what was it like to be part of this department of conservation? um panel. I can't remember the exact word that you used.
[Guest – Will] Yes, expert panel, I guess. Uh it was so cool. It was a bit daunting at first because a lot of the other members of the panel um are people that I've looked up to a lot or read a lot of their research and certainly people that I know for a fact have a much larger understanding on a lot more moths than I did. So, I thought, "Oh my gosh, like how am I going to weigh up to these giants in the New Zealand insect scene?" But through uh patience and learning and bouncing off of them, I've grown a whole lot more for the experience. And thankfully, I think I was able to actually contribute on quite a few things as well. So, it was an awesome experience.
[Host – Hiraina] Do we have This is a bit of a rookie question. Yeah. A lot of moth life in Canterbury.
[Guest – Will] I guess not as much as there used to be because Canterbury has something like 0.1% of its original vegetation left compared to pre-human settlement. So, we've lost quite a lot of the moths that we would have found here originally. But, there are still some great areas where you can see a lot of cool moths like the Port Hills, Deans Bush, in Riccarton. Uh areas like that you can rock up with a moth light or even during the day and you can still see some pretty cool stuff.
[Host – Hiraina] Awesome. Do you have to know what you're looking for though or are there helpful information signs for people?
[Guest – Will] There's not really helpful information signs because I think moths are often a bit unappreciated and so quite a lot of moths are just really small drab looking things. And if you're not clued in or an expert, you might just see it and think, "Oh, that's just some boring moth." But it might actually be a really rare moth that hasn't been seen for 20 or 30 years. But it's just about having the right information to make that assessment.
[Host – Hiraina] Yes. And the right person.
[Guest – Will] True.
[Host – Hiraina] With the knowledge.
[Guest – Will] Very true.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And do you find your surroundings here help to keep your research really grounded in the real world and why it is important?
[Guest – Will] Yes, I definitely think so. It's really great being surrounded by a awesome cohort of fellow uh post-graduate students and uh other researchers and seeing that the impact their work is having uh in real world times. For example, uh Kate Curtis who studied jumping spiders recently had a few publications published and she's been in the news as well as uh several of my supervisors. So, it's cool to see the real world impact that their work has.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. and no doubt inspiring for you as well.
[Guest – Will] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, definitely something I would be looking to do soon as well.
[Host – Hiraina] And who do you hope is going to benefit the most from your research?
[Guest – Will] I think other researchers in New Zealand and potentially abroad because with progression of climate change and on oncoming globalization and how that's spreading, we're going to see more unintentionally introduced wasps in New Zealand and around the world. So, I think it's really important to have baseline studies like this where we can understand and quantify the impact that these wasps will have on many of our native moths. And this kind of work is really of use to fellow researchers to understand the threats that these wasp might pose.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. It sounds like whilst um your study is the type magpie moth actually it's hugely related to this invasive wasp species and populations as well.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, absolutely.
[Host – Hiraina] And when you're talking about other researchers in your area, how many are we talking?
[Guest – Will] Well, it's quite a limited number in New Zealand, we don't we have a lot of people that are part-time insect experts, but there's a smaller number of people that are full-time. So, I think in terms of moth experts in New Zealand, there's probably about five, six, seven of us, a few of which are retired. And then wasp experts, there's probably even less, maybe about three, four or five. And again, many of those are retired. So there's a huge vacant niche for knowledge and people that are willing to study these things.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And if we did get, I guess, an influx of more researchers in this area, what impact do you hope that the collective findings um that you all come to the conclusions of could have on, I guess, farming, agriculture, the environment, and our overall society here in Aotearoa?
[Guest – Will] Yeah, hopefully uh big and um relevant impacts because I know like there's a lot of studies which are investigating um bio-control agents and how they can be applied to agriculture and to horticulture. There's also a lot of people learning about what insects that we have, why they're important, how they can help us, and how they can be a a useful resource that we can use by either by helping with pollination or by uh naturally controlling insects that are pests in horticultural ecosystems or just understanding the cool and wacky insects that we have. So, it's really important that we get more people passionate about studying these things because it's certainly of use economically, horticulturally, and environmentally just seeing, you know, what cool stuff that we have out here because New Zealand's pretty special place.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And I think that's a really great answer as well. So, thank you.
[Guest – Will] No worries.
[Host – Hiraina] Now, scaling that up to think internationally. Yes. How do you think a research on our New Zealand native and invasive species of moths and wasps and so on and so forth could have international relevance in that that global conversation?
[Guest – Will] Definitely hugely relevant because the issues that we're seeing with climate change and with globalization, they're not limited to New Zealand. In fact, they probably felt more overseas. So studies assessing the impacts of invasive species and what they're doing to our native insects are particularly relevant to areas overseas as well as other island ecosystems like Madagascar or Hawaii, Australia, places which are seeing quite a lot of pressure from invasive species. So having more of these studies is only going to help um other people and other researchers’ overseas um with quantifying the issues that they may have.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. And maybe some cool opportunities to partner with other moth experts and wasp experts in these other countries and do collaborative cross-country research in the future.
[Guest – Will] Definitely. I know we're already seeing that in New Zealand for example with the German wasps which are really annoying throughout the summertime. There's a huge amount of funding which is coming from overseas into New Zealand as people are trying to develop means of controlling those either naturally with bio-control or perhaps um unnaturally with different chemicals.
[Host – Hiraina] As you say, New Zealand's pretty special.
[Guest – Will] Yes.
[Host – Hiraina] We're an island nation. So where we can keep things out, great. But where they are here, why not share our findings with everyone else as well?
[Guest – Will] Absolutely.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah. Cool. And I guess how can we ensure that the research that you're doing here is able to contribute to those wider global climate change and adaptation conversations?
[Guest – Will] I guess just making sure that um there's a voice for that research. just pushing out the importance of it and making sure that people understand what's actually happening because people know about climate change and about globalization but when it comes to maybe smaller scale issues like this I don't think people uh have as much of an idea of the impact that these introduced species are having maybe people know more about stoats or rats and big a-list species like that but there's little appreciation for all the other little things that are going on, all these other invasive insects that are coming into the country and it's about time that we put some emphasis on what makes these relevant as well and how we can try and protect some of our other native species.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. And do you see Lincoln University as being a good enabler of that voice that you speak about this research out?
[Guest – Will] I definitely think so. I mean it's one of the best most practical universities in the country particularly for the area that I study with conservation and ecology. We have a great staff full of experts in the field as well as um very knowledgeable uh postgraduate students I like to think and so I think it's definitely a great university to uh provide a voice for the kind of research that myself and others are doing.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. And you being on the podcast is a small part of that but an important one.
[Guest – Will] Absolutely. Yes.
[Host – Hiraina] And the fact that you've, I guess, grown up here and studied here, you love it here.
[Guest – Will] I do. It's my home. It's where I grew up. And obviously they say home is where the heart is, but yeah, there's just Christchurch is a nice place. It's a quiet vibe, but there's enough going on about it that can keep me interested.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah, definitely enough um ecological Yeah. wildlife going on out there.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, there's enough you can find.
[Host – Hiraina] Have you had any international collaboration or interests in your research thus far?
[Guest – Will] Not as of yet, but that's probably going to change. In December, I'm going to Australia, specifically CRA, and I'm going to be presenting my research at the joint Australian New Zealand ecological society. So, I'm hoping to get some uh wider opinions on my work and potentially add some collaborators out there because one of my problem species, that being the wasp, actually came from Australia. And then a problematic moth that I study also came from Australia. So there is definitely some relevance to them with this kind of work.
[Host – Hiraina] And I'm sure some good um friendly banter to be made across the Tasman as well.
[Guest – Will] Oh yes, of course. I think uh my title is tongue and cheek prodding at Aussie invaders in New Zealand and how they’re annoying. So definitely a fair bit of that.
[Host – Hiraina] Very good. I'll expect nothing less. It was It's right there for you.
[Guest – Will] Exactly. It's had to be done.
[Host – Hiraina] So thank you for telling us about your research. Well, I think it's really interesting and no doubt not something that many people know about or have thought about. Um, so that's been really insightful. What has been the most either surprising or rewarding part of your journey so far?
[Guest – Will] Jeez. Well, I would say the most rewarding thing has just been seeing the amount of new things that I'm discovering. I found a new endemic or only found in New Zealand species of wasp uh which lives inside the cocoons of one of the moth groups that I study. And that was really exciting to find and just seeing the effect that these wasps are having. And while it's sad, it is interesting to me just to be able to see the sheer number of wasps that I'm able to rear out from these native caterpillars and actually understand that the effect that they are having in real time. It's kind of been, it's sad to see, but it is rewarding because I know that the work I'm doing is relevant and it is a problem. So, someone has to study it.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. And I mean, two things here that I'd love to learn more about. Um, what happens when you how do you discover a new species? What what is the process of that? And then rearing. So, um, keen to understand. Yeah. What does it mean to discover a new species? What is that? Most people never ever experience that. So, do you want to tell us a bit about what that was like?
[Guest – Will] That's true. Yeah. So that was really cool because I was rearing an alpine species of tiger moth called metacrius and I had four of their cocoons sitting around that had done nothing. The other ones that had adult moths hatch out and I thought, "Oh, maybe these are dead." And then I came home one day and I saw all these tiny black wasps just full in these containers where I had these cocoons. I thought, "Oh my god, what the heck's that? something has gotten into it or like maybe it's a pest that's just eaten the cocoons like damn this is a pain and then I looked closer at I thought no these are wasps this is like a parasitic thing and so I looked into it and I couldn't find any research or documented work talking about this kind of interaction with this moth so I thought oh my god this is a new thing this is so cool and I quickly went around to checking some of the closely related wasps that were known of, but it was a group that's very very understudied. So, I thought it's pretty much guaranteed that I have a new species here and this is an unknown interaction. So, pretty cool to be able to write up on that.
[Host – Hiraina] Definitely. That sounds awesome. Okay. And second point, uh, rearing of insects. What does that actually look like?
[Guest – Will] Uh, a huge amount of work. Essentially, I have a temperature controlled room and every couple of days I will have maybe 50 hungry caterpillars in there. I will manually pick them out of their containers, clean away their poop and uh any dead plant matter, and then I put more plants in there, fresh food for them to eat, and then add the caterpillars back in. And I just note down what they're doing. So, as they become cocoons, I'll make a mention on that. If they get killed by wasps, I'll write up that and I'll talk about how many wasps killed them or inside of them. And then when they become adult moths, I'll make note on that as well. So, it's quite a tedious process, but I've been doing it for about 2 years now. So, you kind of get you kind of fine-tune it in a way.
[Host – Hiraina] Sounds like a glamorous research work there.
[Guest – Will] Oh, yeah. Very much so.
[Host – Hiraina] And how long are you talking from to become an adult? What is the sort of what days? What amount of days or months until these species are considered adult?
[Guest – Will] Well, I guess it depends how early you collect the caterpillar. If you get the really small ones that have just hatched out of the eggs, it will probably take them about a week and a half to become a cocoon and then they stay in their cocoon for maybe just over a week and then they become an adult. So, the whole process is normally about 2 to 3 weeks.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah, that's quite good in terms of gathering data um changing and pivoting if you need to based on your insights.
[Guest – Will] Definitely
[Host – Hiraina] Collecting new stuff.
[Guest – Will] It's great. It's a really fast turnaround. So, I'll get some caterpillars, look after them for two weeks, get a new batch of caterpillars, and I just keep the process going throughout the whole summer.
[Host – Hiraina] How cool. And what are you hoping to do after you complete your PhD with us?
[Guest – Will] Yeah, so I have a couple of options. I think right now my main one is I want to pursue a post-doctoral research position either in Australia maybe at the Australian National Insect Collection or potentially in Auckland at Maanaki Whenua. So those would be my A1 options. Otherwise, I would love to do any kind of research, maybe at a crown research institute or one day hopefully become a lecturer or a tutor because teaching is a real passion of mine and I love sharing what I know with young students and just seeing the passion that they have bouncing back at me when I teach them new things.
[Host – Hiraina] Excellent. Yeah. And I mean, look forward to having you back here.
[Guest – Will] Yeah’d be great. Yeah, Would be keen
[Host – Hiraina]. Have you had a bit of um teaching experience during your post-graduate studies?
[Guest – Will] Definitely. Yes. I've been a demonstrator. So I've taught quite a lot of uh classes in undergraduate level and I've also uh done a bit of outreach with a couple of primary schools and I've had um club days where students will come to the university and myself and John Maris who kind of looks after the insect collection will teach them about the weird wonders of insects. So it's definitely something I've really enjoyed doing.
[Host – Hiraina] Absolutely. And you sound like you're doing a lot to contribute to your field as well.
[Guest – Will] I like to think so. Yes.
[Host – Hiraina] Cool. And speaking of contributing to your field, uh you've spoken, I guess, a bit about some of the roles that you're hoping to embark on post PhD. How do you see yourself contributing to your field in the wider sense of the world into the future?
[Guest – Will] Yeah, of course. Well, I plan to keep studying sort of these invasive insect or parasitism associations with moths, which is very relevant to the wider world because it's a problem that everyone's going to be having. So, I definitely love that aspect of what we call invasion ecology and understanding what's going on at like an ecosystem or like a biome scale. And then I also really want to continue studying the moths themselves or what's called systematics and what makes them different from other species and describing species which just I guess helps contribute to uh the global catalogue of known species.
[Host – Hiraina] Mhm. And your passion for this field was developed at a very young age.
[Guest – Will] Yes.
[Host – Hiraina] How do you think more young people could get passionate and then maybe end up helping you do research in the future?
[Guest – Will] I think the most important thing is just education. New Zealand has a wonderful environment, but I think a lot of students, every child's kind of born with a weird interest in insects or with the uh the wider world and the environment, but you can kind of lose that very easily. So, I think it's really important that we have means of educating students in a better way as to what the uh natural world has, what wonders it has.
[Host – Hiraina] Totally agree with you there. So you did your bachelor's here probably a natural progression to do your masters and your PhD now given you would have already known some of the staff um from your undergraduate days but why did you choose Lincoln University in the first place and then I guess why do you keep continuing to choose us?
[Guest – Will] Well, first reason was I happened to live two minutes down the road in Broadfield. So, it was very easy port of call. I could just drive a couple of minutes into university. And I guess I was always passionate about birds and then insects, but I wanted to have an area where I could focus those interests. And I guess the ecology and conservation degree really drew me to Lincoln. I talked to uh some nice influential staff members like Tim Karin at a few of the open days and that really drew me to this university. And I guess once I began studying here, just seeing the passion and the care in which the staff have in my department for all of the students, it really helped foster a real love and passion for what I do. And it's what’s led me to stay here. It just the people are just so great. It makes the whole process really easy.
[Host – Hiraina] I bet. And I love that you are able to be, I guess, nurtured in through a lot of helpful stuff. And you've had the same experience throughout your time here because you've spent a little bit of time here now.
[Guest – Will] It's been a while now. Yeah.
[Host – Hiraina] If someone was thinking about doing post-graduate study either in your field or another one here at Lincoln, what advice would you give to them based on your journey so far? Yeah. I mean, find something that you’re passionate about and pick that because postgraduate studies, they're not always easy. You have to be very good at self-management and you want something that makes you excited. So, one of my supervisors told me, you have to wake up every morning and be passionate about what you're doing. And if you're not, it's going to be really hard to do that. So find a group or an area that interests you and pick a topic that makes you excited where you find out new things where you're like constantly having uh challenges to deal with and then rewards for surpassing those challenges.
[Host – Hiraina] Totally agree and I think that is excellent advice for anyone listening uh who's interested in pursuing PhD and supervisors are obviously another big part of doing your PhD or your masters. How have you found your experience with supervisors?
[Guest – Will] My experience has been great. So I got quite fortunate. I met both of my supervisors in the first few years of my undergraduate studies lectures for most of the courses that I was taking. And so it kind of became a natural progression to include both of them in my research. Um one of them I'd spent quite a lot of time with doing um various uh research reports or even doing a bit of um offhand work for him. Mhm. So, it was kind of a natural progression just to invite them both into uh supervisory roles.
[Host – Hiraina] That sounds like a really good way to do it. You know them, they know you. You're all passionate about the topic.
[Guest – Will] Definitely.
[Host – Hiraina] So, we're reaching our wrap-up session um section of the podcast now at Will. So, you're doing great.
[Guest – Will] Fantastic.
[Host – Hiraina] What is one thing that you would like people to take away from this korero that we've had about your area of research?
[Guest – Will] I would say that sometimes moths can be a little bit drab and people might not appreciate them, but that they're really cool and unique insects and like species. And I think that we should have a little bit more appreciation for them. First of all, they won't sting you. They won't bite you. They just fly around and do their thing. So, there's no need for people to be overly scared or weirded out by them. might suck when they fly into your face, but yeah, just have a little bit of appreciation for how cool they are
[Host – Hiraina] and don't just let the ones that attack your greenhouse or your veggie garden.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, ruin it for you.
[Host – Hiraina] Yeah, totally cool. And if someone is listening and interested in what you're doing, how could they get in touch with you or support the work?
[Guest – Will] Yeah, of course. So they could contact me via my email which would be wilthro159gmail.com and I'd be happy to share more information with them. I'm also on uh the starter gathering site called iNaturalist. So uh people could message me on there and get in contact if they're curious about the work or want to participate in any way.
[Host – Hiraina] Cool. Plenty of channels there.
[Guest – Will] Yeah, definitely.
[Host – Hiraina] And if you could sum up your research journey so far in just one sentence, what would it be?
[Guest – Will] Cool tiger moths and their pesky parasitoids.
[Host – Hiraina] Nice. That's good. And I look forward to seeing your future conference title, abstract titles or publication titles as well.
[Guest – Will] Fantastic.
[Host – Hiraina] Surely there's hungry caterpillar in there somewhere.
[Guest – Will] Oh, I'm sure I can find a way to sneak it in.
[Host – Hiraina] Great. Now, the final two questions. They're a bit bit of fun for you. Okay. To end us off. So firstly, what is your favourite food and fibre product?
[Guest – Will] Well, I'm a big fan of Italian cuisine. So I'd probably have to say favourite food product would probably be pasta. And then fibre product, I would say probably merino wool. I'm a big fan of merino possum jerseys and uh gloves. So quite enjoy that one.
[Host – Hiraina] I noticed you haven't said insects as your favourite food product there.
[Guest – Will] Ah, yes, that is a good point. It's it's growing on me. I think that they have a lot of potential to be a useful food product. Maybe if we have something to upscale them a little bit, maybe have a bit more flavour, but they're a great source of nutrition. So maybe one day I wouldn't be opposed to uh trying something extravagant. I know in places like Thailand you can eat scorpions or tarantulas. So yeah, give that a go.
[Host – Hiraina] Sounds good. No moths or wasps at this point though.
[Guest – Will] No, I couldn't eat a moth.
[Host – Hiraina] No, they're too close to your heart.
[Guest – Will] Exactly. Right. Yeah. And they're so fluffy and scaly. This wouldn't be good eating.
[Host – Hiraina] So true. Not good for eating, great for studying and appreciating.
[Guest – Will] Absolutely.
[Host – Hiraina] Yes. And last question for you, Will. If you came across $1 million of research funding,
[Guest – Will] great.
[Host – Hiraina] How would you spend it?
[Guest – Will] I guess one of the first things I would do is uh DNA related. So I would use these things called micro satellites, which allow you to kind of map an organism's full genome. And I would do that for my main study species, the New Zealand magpie moth as well as the Australian magpie moth because the two species are interbreeding and the North Island which is causing some problems and it's very difficult to distinguish them with some of the nuclear genes that I'm working with. So, it would be great just to be able to produce micro satellites which are quite expensive and just apply that kind of DNA work to my research.
[Host – Hiraina] And in lay person terms,
[Guest – Will] in lay person terms, it would be cool to get a type of uh DNA or genetic program which would allow me to look at all the bits and pieces within an insect rather than just small fragments at a time.
[Host – Hiraina] A big thank you to Will for joining me today and sharing his research journey. Such an insightful korero. This has been from the ground up. Thanks for listening. If you enjoyed today’s episode and you want to hear more about post-graduate research and the people behind it, don't forget to rate, subscribe, and share this podcast with your friends. See you next time.
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